tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9619963.post4904769208511677425..comments2023-12-08T12:50:34.303-08:00Comments on W.C. Varones: Fake Tea Partier doesn't fool anyoneW.C. Varoneshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17663570682958847976noreply@blogger.comBlogger68125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9619963.post-9465848352803549262010-09-08T21:21:58.876-07:002010-09-08T21:21:58.876-07:00Racism is among the vilest of charges you can hurl...Racism is among the vilest of charges you can hurl at a political opponent.<br /><br />You hurl it with no evidence other than your own presuppositions.<br /><br />I would be happy in the coming days to give you plenty of material to read, but perhaps a good start would be James Taranto's <a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704671904575193921155425154.html" rel="nofollow">Why the Left needs racism</a>.<br /><br />And perhaps you should ponder the morality and wisdom of throwing such vile accusations at people you don't know. As I've suggested before, go to a Tea Party and meet some people before you slander them.wcvnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9619963.post-26950029739814691002010-09-08T20:11:44.103-07:002010-09-08T20:11:44.103-07:00"So economic collapse can cause mainstream po..."So economic collapse can cause mainstream polls to plummet, but it can't help spur the rise of a political opposition movement?"<br /><br />"Only racism can create a political opposition movement?"<br /><br />"Interesting logic."<br /><br />I see how you play your game here, wcv. And it is apparently your turf, so you get to decide how the game is played, I suppose.<br /><br />I'm not going to buy into your continued efforts to reframe my arguments.<br /><br />I just notice how you conveniently ignore so many blatantly obvious facts, and speak out of both sides of your mouth while doing so.<br /><br />Like claiming that "the tea party isn't partisan and opposes both major parties" comes out of one side of your mouth, while someone who holds up a sign goofing on you must be an "Obamabot" comes out of the other.<br /><br />Here's the bottom line: there is a LOT of racism at work in the opposition to Obama in general, and the tea part specifically. If it really were about fiscal policy, this opposition would have welled up two, four, or six years ago.<br /><br />You can keep pretending that the tea party is motivated by the purest of beliefs, and that you're shocked -shocked I say!- by spurious accusations of racism.<br /><br />But you will be lying. And you know it.<br /><br />If that's where you want to hold your ground, that's certainly your prerogative.ghostwriterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07221584164509782430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9619963.post-4866575237262587782010-09-08T07:52:45.053-07:002010-09-08T07:52:45.053-07:00So economic collapse can cause mainstream polls to...So economic collapse can cause mainstream polls to plummet, but it can't help spur the rise of a political opposition movement?<br /><br />Only racism can create a political opposition movement?<br /><br />Interesting logic.wcvnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9619963.post-68860430791673194482010-09-08T06:48:08.970-07:002010-09-08T06:48:08.970-07:00"And I suppose the fact that Obama had very h..."And I suppose the fact that Obama had very high approval ratings early in his term and very low approval ratings now means that the vast majority of Americans were not racists in 2009, but are racists in 2010? It doesn't have anything to do with his hard-left policies and Chicago bare-knuckle tactics?"<br /><br />Which "hard left" policies would those be? Trying to implement Bob Dole's health care plan? Maintaining Bush's illegal occupations in the middle east? The continuation of the Patriot Act? The utter lack of transparency vis a vis "homeland security," etc? <br /><br />Obama is anything but "hard left." And if he's so "bare-knuckled," why do the Dems still roll over for the Repubs at every turn?<br /><br />This whole left/right thing is a joke. Polically, we are a right/further right nation, thanks to the "Reagan Revolution." Which is exactly why we are at the brink of disaster.<br /><br /><br />"Some people just want to see racism wherever they look."<br /><br />Conflating Obama's approval ratings with the advent of the tea party is simply more specious arguing. Obama's approval rating is in the tank because the economy sucks. End of story.<br />But the tea party is a different entity entirely. And the more you pretend that there is no racism at the core of the tea party movement, the less credibility you have.<br /><br /><br />You can keep asserting that I "want to see racism," but that's simply ridiculous. It's faulty logic. I see the FACTS. To insist that it's the result of fevered imagination is an insult to my (and your) intelligence.ghostwriterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07221584164509782430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9619963.post-64778921637186571902010-09-08T06:46:37.003-07:002010-09-08T06:46:37.003-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.ghostwriterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07221584164509782430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9619963.post-34838821914163487722010-09-08T06:29:24.946-07:002010-09-08T06:29:24.946-07:00And I suppose the fact that Obama had very high ap...And I suppose the fact that Obama had very high approval ratings early in his term and very low approval ratings now means that the vast majority of Americans were not racists in 2009, but are racists in 2010? It doesn't have anything to do with his hard-left policies and Chicago bare-knuckle tactics?<br /><br />Some people just want to see racism wherever they look.wcvnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9619963.post-61029896346144290172010-09-08T05:14:56.962-07:002010-09-08T05:14:56.962-07:00"Try again next time, Obamabot!"
Did yo..."Try again next time, Obamabot!"<br /><br />Did you write that? Because it belies everything you've said about how "this has nothing to do with Obama and is about all politicians," etc.<br /><br />Because he's goofing on the tea party, he's an "Obamabot"?<br /><br />I'm goofing on the tea party, and I'm not an "Obamabot."<br /><br />Your reflexive conclusion says a lot more about your (or the tea party's) real positions than all the rest of the things you've said to me.<br /><br />I understand that "the media" will look for the most inflammatory signs. But to dismiss the undertone of racism in "your" movement as you've done is either a measure of your ignorance or your dishonesty.<br /><br />Again, I don't need "the media" to realize that 2 + 2 always = 4.<br /><br />"what's that say about non-Tea-Partiers, who are still not in the streets calling for reform? If the Tea Partiers were slow, everybody else is comatose."<br /><br />As it's always been. Again, that's distraction from the fact that the "tea party" materialized virtually overnight when the black guy showed up.<br /><br />I know racism when I see it, sir. You do me or yourself no service by insulting my intelligence.ghostwriterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07221584164509782430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9619963.post-51482799093283197512010-09-07T20:11:46.727-07:002010-09-07T20:11:46.727-07:00"You argued that no, it's just that the t..."You argued that no, it's just that the tea partiers were too stupid to catch on to how bad things were until Bush left office."<br /><br />Agreed that Tea Partiers were late to realize how bad things were. But better late than never.<br /><br />And what's that say about non-Tea-Partiers, who are <i>still</i> not in the streets calling for reform? If the Tea Partiers were slow, everybody else is comatose.wcvnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9619963.post-29325215383904530432010-09-07T20:07:38.799-07:002010-09-07T20:07:38.799-07:00To the extent you've seen pictures of racist p...To the extent you've seen pictures of racist posters at Tea Parties, that's the partisan media finding the one nut among hundreds or thousands of good people to advance their storyline.<br /><br />Come to a Tea Party. You'll meet lots of good people who don't care a bit about race. I know. I've been going to Tea Parties since they started.<br /><br />It's been good discussing this with you. Hope to see you around. I am off to bed. Good night!wcvnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9619963.post-41974752171137002122010-09-07T19:43:37.191-07:002010-09-07T19:43:37.191-07:00That's weird. I got a mesage that my post was ...That's weird. I got a mesage that my post was too big, so I split it up and posted it in two sections, only to see that my original post showed up after all. Please forgive the redundancy, I'll try to delete the excess material.ghostwriterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07221584164509782430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9619963.post-63813767449841398042010-09-07T19:39:42.100-07:002010-09-07T19:39:42.100-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.ghostwriterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07221584164509782430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9619963.post-75580066432682560312010-09-07T19:39:31.550-07:002010-09-07T19:39:31.550-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.ghostwriterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07221584164509782430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9619963.post-83733634290032941782010-09-07T19:39:03.136-07:002010-09-07T19:39:03.136-07:00"Dude, Obama has taken Bush's fiscal reck..."Dude, Obama has taken Bush's fiscal recklessness to unimaginable new heights."<br /><br />I disagree. Obama was faced with certain realities. I think he's been a lousy President, but not because of deficits. It was Bush's policies and spending that *&%# us. There wasn't much Obama could have done other than deficit spending, which history has shown is often the only thing that works in times of steep recession. Obama didn't crate the recession, Bush and his policies did.<br /><br />And I'm not the one who's obsessed with Obama being black. That's a low-rent argument, and you know it. Just because I'm calling out the inherent racism in the movement you support doesn't make ME the one who's "obsessed" with his skin color.<br /><br />You can TRY to argue around it, but it's a little too cute to say that people woke up to the fiscal realties at the same time Obama got elected, and it's all just pure coincidence. Please. Don;t embarrass me -or yourself- with that line of reasoning.<br /><br />I still remeber where I was the night that the tanks rolled across the Irag border, in a "war" (cough!) that was supposed to last "weeks, not months." I wrote a letter to my wife and kids that night and had her put it away for them to read when they're grown up.<br /><br />In it, I explained that e are an empire in decline, and I described exactly how the Iraq "war" (cough!) was going to play out, the effect Bush's jingoistic, knuckle-dragging response to 9/11 was going to have on our economy, and how Bush would exploit 9/11 for the rest of his career, including using it to gain reelection. <br /><br />If a random douchebag like me had it all sussed out seven years ago, then other people should have figured it out too.<br /><br />I suggested that the tea party was driven in large part by racism. You argued that no, it's just that the tea partiers were too stupid to catch on to how bad things were until Bush left office. It's sort of a lose/lose, that.<br /><br />Trust me, I'm not a "Democrats good, Republicans bad" partisan. I'm a "Democrats bad, Republicans REALLY REALLY bad" guy. <br /><br />I hold the Republicans responsible for mot of what's wrong with this nation right now, though, FAR more than I do the Democrats. I don't buy into the idea that they're both equally "guilty." <br /><br />If I saw someone with a splinter and a headowund, I'd treat the headwound first. Doesn't mean the splinter won;t need to get tweezed eventually, but there's not much point in plucking the splintger first while the guy bleeds to death.<br /><br />Fisrt it's time to stop the economic and SOCIAL damage the Republicans have done and continue to do to this country. And like it or not, many of your tea partiers are shills -however unwitting- for the Republicans.<br /><br />It's time to stop pretending that mosques and mexicans are the biggest problems we face, and start being honest about what's really going on.ghostwriterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07221584164509782430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9619963.post-84339554346740606592010-09-07T19:17:09.600-07:002010-09-07T19:17:09.600-07:00Dude, Obama has taken Bush's fiscal recklessne...Dude, Obama has taken Bush's fiscal recklessness to unimaginable new heights.<br /><br />We used to think Bush was an a-hole for running deficits of a few hundred billion. Now Obama is running structural deficits of more than a trillion as far as the eye can see.<br /><br />Sure, more people should have been on the fiscal responsibility bandwagon earlier, but the bubble hadn't burst and most people didn't realize how unsustainable the economy was. We had low unemployment and everybody was getting rich with their home prices rising. Now with the bubble giving way to Depression, you're surprised people are angry?<br /><br />And I know you're obsessed with him being black, but the rest of us aren't.<br /><br />You really need to move beyond this partisan Democrats-good, Republicans-bad mindset. Politicians of both parties are rotten to the core.wcvnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9619963.post-32383658745475369372010-09-07T19:13:24.342-07:002010-09-07T19:13:24.342-07:00I've poked around a little. You're a brigh...I've poked around a little. You're a bright cat; I like a lot of what you have to say.<br /><br />So you're way too smart to pretend bot to know what's really happening re: the "tea party movement."<br />You know as well as I do that the real reason they're suddenly acting out is a caustic mix of fear and racism and jingoism and ignorance. It's not biased journalists making all those "Obama is a Socialist" signs, and the anti-Muslim signs, and so on.<br /><br />Sure, there are probably a few genuine libertarians at the core of the movement, but that's not what makes up the bulk of the tea party.ghostwriterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07221584164509782430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9619963.post-13142641544234660292010-09-07T18:57:39.258-07:002010-09-07T18:57:39.258-07:00No snappy retort for that one, huh?No snappy retort for that one, huh?ghostwriterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07221584164509782430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9619963.post-17080543441398797152010-09-07T18:38:53.538-07:002010-09-07T18:38:53.538-07:00Eight years of Reagan, four years of the elder Bus...Eight years of Reagan, four years of the elder Bush, eight years of GW. Our entire economy DECIMATED, our way of life permanently dismantled. Military occupations of sovereign nations that didn't attack us, and have drained the Treasury and ruined what was left of our economy. Domestic and Foreign Policies that have brought the U.S. and the world to the brink of total collapse.<br /><br />All that, yet no "tea party."<br /><br />Then the black guy wins, and suddenly it's time to overthrow the government? LOL! Sorry, wcv, I don't need any "biased journalism" to see through THAT bullshit.ghostwriterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07221584164509782430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9619963.post-16975776088338140812010-09-07T18:32:24.285-07:002010-09-07T18:32:24.285-07:00OK on the Olbermann. But you're obviously get...OK on the Olbermann. But you're obviously getting very biased news from somewhere. Print media isn't necessarily much better. Search my blog archives for NY Times, Washington Post, LA Times, etc. All are horribly biased and consistently unfair to libertarians/ Constitutionalists / Tea Partiers.<br /><br />Come to a Tea Party rather than reading about them through the jaundiced view of a partisan reporter. You will meet a lot of friendly people of all types.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9619963.post-56268551667057785122010-09-07T18:24:44.764-07:002010-09-07T18:24:44.764-07:00You may well be the exception to the rule, wcv, bu...You may well be the exception to the rule, wcv, but you and I both know the facts about voting demographics and the "tea partiers." <br /><br /><br />And I'll explain it again: I don't watch Olbermann. Skip the cliches, and try reading what I'm actually saying.ghostwriterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07221584164509782430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9619963.post-46666746113415909242010-09-07T18:22:41.616-07:002010-09-07T18:22:41.616-07:00"You can lead a horse to water, but you can&#..."You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."<br /><br />I don't need to be led anywhere. I'm not the "follower" type. I'll leave that to the tea partiers.<br /><br />It cracks me up that some of you claim to be anti-corporate, for a number of reasons.<br /><br />The first, again, is that your little "movement" only arose in the wake of the election of the first black president.<br /><br />And I GUARANTEE that 99% of self-identified tea partiers have almost always voted Republican -the party that gave our country away to corporations.ghostwriterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07221584164509782430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9619963.post-88957276676552917072010-09-07T18:22:34.641-07:002010-09-07T18:22:34.641-07:00Come on. I called Bush the worst President in his...Come on. I called Bush <a href="http://www.wcvarones.com/2008/12/once-in-while-you-get-shown-light.html" rel="nofollow">the worst President in history</a>.<br /><br />But your narrow little mind can only imagine that all opposition to Democrats' policies must be racist because the President is black, as you keep reminding us.<br /><br />Go back to your Keith Olbermann. There's no hope for enlightenment for you here.wcvnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9619963.post-86232955371302404342010-09-07T18:11:29.863-07:002010-09-07T18:11:29.863-07:00And for what it's worth, I don't watch CNN...And for what it's worth, I don't watch CNN or MSNBC. I occasionally watch FOX (to keep my friends close and my enemies closer).<br /><br />I get my news by reading, both print and online news sources. Several major U.S. newspapers with different editorial slants, my hometown newspaper, and a few from different countries. Also magazines, history books, and so on.ghostwriterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07221584164509782430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9619963.post-27019802819575610682010-09-07T18:11:14.625-07:002010-09-07T18:11:14.625-07:00You can lead a horse to water, but you can't m...You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.wcvnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9619963.post-59155318649983671572010-09-07T18:07:46.373-07:002010-09-07T18:07:46.373-07:00"The Tea Parties are opposed to the very corp..."The Tea Parties are opposed to the very corporatism/fascism that you claim to be opposed to. Tea Partiers are opposed to the Wall Street bailouts and housing bailouts and car bailouts. The ruling class politicians of both parties and the ruling class media supported all of these."<br /><br />Please. The "tea party" is very much pro-right and anti-Obama. I noticed there was no tea part until the first black President came along.<br /><br />You can pay lip service to some sort of vague libertarianism, but the bottom line is that most "tea partiers" will vote for Republicans when push comes to shove.<br /><br />And it is very much the right wing/Republicans that have destroyed this once-great nation.ghostwriterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07221584164509782430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9619963.post-55144330888405553222010-09-07T15:32:51.015-07:002010-09-07T15:32:51.015-07:00ghostwriter,
I don't know what you're get...ghostwriter,<br /><br />I don't know what you're getting so worked up about. I think you're watching too much CNN and MSNBC and getting a very distorted view of the Tea Parties.<br /><br />The Tea Parties are opposed to the very corporatism/fascism that you claim to be opposed to. Tea Partiers are opposed to the Wall Street bailouts and housing bailouts and car bailouts. The ruling class politicians of both parties and the ruling class media supported all of these. <br /><br />You're yelling at the good guys and defending the bad guys.wcvnoreply@blogger.com